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Q&A with Kathleen Ford
In the weeks following their primary wins in the race for mayor of St. Petersburg, Creative Loafing asked both Bill Foster and Kathleen Ford for a one-on-one interview.
Despite several overtures from CL, Foster declined the requests.
We sat down with Kathleen Ford on Thursday, October 15th. Here are excerpts from that interview:
CL: You had an interesting line the other night -- you said you were evolving, and Bill Foster doesn't believe in evolution. Is that a reflection of yourself, and how you've been perceived from your behavior on the City Council in the late '90s?
KF: Well I think everybody, as we age, hopefully we're growing and developing and learning. That's what I was referring to.
CL: You've made a lot of references -- some tongue in cheek -- about dinosaurs during the campaign. Yesterday Bill Foster appeared to be getting unhappy about those references -- there was a question in Monday's debate when you had the toy dinosaurs -- he said he took that as an insult. He said he has to defend himself for just reading the Bible. Do you think he's getting a little oversensitive about this?
KF: Well his letter to the School Board was insulting to me. Because I believe in the separation of church and state. And he thrust himself into the public eye by foisting his religious beliefs on our schoolchildren.
CL: He's gone out of his way to say that his religious beliefs have not influenced him in his policy decisions. Do you take him at his word?
KF: But it's just inconsistent. He wants to vacate the public right of way, and as you know, that's a 1st Amendment right for some groups. [This interview took place at the same time the City Council voted to support vacating the public sidewalk at BayWalk.]
CL: Let's talk about baseball. Yesterday, Mr. Foster sounded like you. He said he was against corporate welfare. But let's look back at Monday. You mentioned the ABC group, that Jeff Lyash-led group that is looking at alternative sites for the Rays to play. You mentioned the phrase "tortious interference" in reference to the ABC group. Can you tell us what that means?
KF: Right now, the city of St. Pete has a stadium use agreement with "the club." And under that agreement, the Rays are specifically moving outside the Dome. The city of St. Pete also cannot talk about an alternative spot, either. At least without both of the parties agreeing to discuss a modification of that agreement. So if some third party out there, such as ABC, decides to want to talk about a different location for baseball, if they cause damages to the city, then I think it's tortious interference. They've come very, very, very, very close. There's nothing in the current charter that allows the mayor to go off on his own, and name a group of folks, and give it an appearance that the city approves of it, when the city has an existing agreement, and the mayor's role and responsibility under the City Charter is to enforce that agreement. If he wants to amend that agreement, it's a policy decision that has to be made by City Council, under our charter. And my concern is, when all this secret dealmaking was going on about the Trop redevelopment. The largest financial decision to face the city of St. Pete and I was the only one raising the issues. Why was Building Designing and Construction magazine, publishing in its February 2008 issue, reporting that Hines had been awarded the Trop re-development contract, and HOK Sports Plus was going to build a new 34,000-seat stadium on our waterfront? And this was before the responses for the RFP to re-develop the Trop were even due, which was March of '08. That indicated to me that there was some huge problems. And that's my concern with both the current mayor and the past Council. Why didn't anybody complain about it? Which makes you wonder, did any councilmembers really know about it? If you become mayor and [Rays owner] Stuart Sternberg gives you a call, and he says to you, "Can we work something out?" Will you say, "Stuart, you have a lease until 2027, there's not really much we can say now"? Of course not. But what I will say, though, is that this is a decision for Council to decide. If we're going to have any discussions, it needs to be out in the open in the public. That's a policy decision. In my reading of the Charter, policy discussions are made by City Council. And I know in the past, the mayor and city staff will bring forward certain policy issues for the City Council to vote on, but I think in this case, the decision to vote on this has to come from Council.
The race to replace Rick Baker will finally be decided next Tuesday. Ten candidates vied for attention throughout the summer, and now it's come down to this: a race between two policy wonks with experience in city government.
It's also the story of how two complex people have become prisoners to their images, or rather their caricatures, as perpetuated by their opponents and the media -- images best summarized as the wicked shrew (Kathleen Ford) vs. the religious zealot (Bill Foster).
There's more to both of them than that, of course -- and even though both served on City Council, their respective approaches to the prospect of governing St. Petersburg are quite distinct.
Despite a recession that has hit the city hard the past couple of years, in some ways things have never looked brighter for the business and professional establishment in Florida's fourth-largest city. And Bill Foster has attempted to position himself as the logical choice for those content with what Mayor Baker has accomplished over the past eight years.
But another significant block of the electorate has embraced Ford's call for a new direction in City Hall. The platform of change resonates, as it did a year ago at the national level.
Daryl Paulson, USF-St. Petersburg political science professor emeritus, calls the 46-year-old Foster the status quo candidate, which he says generally is not the place to be in most campaigns. But, he adds, "To a great extent, most voters are satisfied in St. Pete, because property taxes have been rolled back and downtown has been relatively thriving."
Paulson says Ford's change theme still works, though, "unless Foster can convince enough voters that they don't want change."
But political strategist Mitch Kates, whose candidate in the primary, the liberal-leaning political novice Scott Wagman, finished fourth in the 10-person field, disputes the notion that this is a change election. "One of the things that we saw for the most part at a municipal level," he observes, "people were not looking for a sea change. That's not what was on the minds of most voters."
Elected after the city changed to a strong-mayor form of government, Rick Baker has arguably been the most powerful leader the city of St. Petersburg has ever seen. Certainly in the aughts he has dominated public life in St. Pete -- but critics say he was elevated by an acquiescent City Council that followed his lead in lockstep.
CHARACTER STUDIES
Enter Kathleen Ford. Part of the aforementioned narrative of this campaign -- promulgated by Bill Foster and promoted incessantly by the editorial board of the St. Petersburg Times -- is that the former councilmember (who lost to Baker in the race for mayor in 2001) is simply unsuitable for office, more so for her demeanor than her policy prescriptions, which they also don't like very much.
In their editorial supporting Bill Foster for mayor, the Times seemed to question why anyone would even consider the 52-year-old Ford as an alternative.
The paper wrote: "Ford creates confrontations and attacks City Hall as though she is more intent on avenging her last election loss than in setting a course for a brighter future." The paper also said that her frequent and sarcastic references to Foster's controversial support of intelligent design bordered on "intolerance."
In the waning weeks on the campaign trail, Foster has complained that Ford's comments on the issue were "disheartening" and "insulting," and said he wouldn't apologize for his faith.
Ford's notable debate line -- "I've evolved, and my opponent doesn't believe in evolution" -- plus her distribution of toy dinosaurs at the debate could at least be seen as making light of Foster's religious views. But even some of his closest supporters admit that the letter Foster wrote to the Pinellas County School Board arguing in favor of creationism was a colossal mistake for someone who already had declared his intentions of running for mayor. It was a gift that any politician would likely exploit, and Ford has certainly done that.
Because of that letter to the school board, supporter and former City Councilmember Jay Lasita says that Foster has had to tread some of the same lines that John Kennedy did in 1960 in trying to convince the country that as the first Catholic president, he wouldn't set up a private phone line to the Vatican. As evidence of Foster's bona fides regarding the divide between church and state, Lasita uses the example of Bayfront Medical Center.
In 1997, Bayfront entered into an alliance with several Catholic hospitals to consolidate services and save money. According to directives of that alliance, patients were restricted from receiving a variety of legal medical procedures, including abortion, sterilization, emergency contraception and artificial insemination.
Lasita, Ford and Foster all served on Council at the time, and Lasita said they all worked equally hard to unwind that agreement, even though Foster is pro-life.
A Times/Bay News 9 poll published on October 18th showed Ford up by 5 percent over Foster, despite his dominance in endorsements and fundraising. But Foster has also received endorsements from Democrats like Lasita and former Councilmember Renee Flowers.
Lasita says he likes and respects Ford, but remains skeptical that she's changed her ways from when they served together on the board nearly a decade ago. Much has been mentioned and discussed about Ford's tenure on the board (1997-2001), and much of that has been fairly negative. Lasita says that Ford was a micromanager, and "when you were on the same side, that could be kind of fun." But he said there were many other times when Ford would pick off a handful of items on the Council's Consent Agenda, and painstakingly dissect those items to death.
"My point is, at times her scrutiny was inappropriate. Kathleen wasn't always wrong, but by trying to micromanage, it became labor-intensive."
But Peter Rudy Wallace disagrees. The former Speaker of the Florida House says that Ford's diligence and thoroughness were frustrating to some people, but only because he says they weren't accustomed to that level of scrutiny.
When asked if he thinks there's a difference in the Ford who last served in public office in 2001 and now, Wallace, a family friend for decades, says, "She's raised two teenagers since then, and she's a much more mellow person." But he stresses that he doesn't believe she's lost any of her passion for efficient government.
One significant difference between Ford and Foster is their approach to the Tampa Bay Rays, who last year campaigned for months for a referendum to build a new park on the waterfront. You know the history. The Rays pulled the measure off the November ballot when it didn't appear as if they had the popular support to pass the measure. It didn't help their cause when it was revealed that the team and city officials had been meeting in private for months on a possible plan before it was formally announced in November of 2007.
Ford got involved with the neighborhood activist group P.O.W.W. (Preserve Our Wallets and Waterfront), which organized against the stadium proposal.
She's maintained a hard-line, anti-public subsidy stance for a new park throughout the campaign, which not surprisingly in this era of corporate bailouts has seemed to catch on with residents.
The Times has criticized that approach as "simplistic." But in an interview with Creative Loafing, Ford said that she would definitely be willing to meet and hear out Rays owner Stuart Sternberg should she be elected (a stance similar to Foster's, which has been applauded by the Times). And in recent weeks Foster has begun to sound tougher on the Rays, saying at a recent Tiger Bay Debate that he is against corporate welfare.
RACE & GENDER
One of the more interesting developments in the campaign has been the mixed allegiance of the black community. Unlike recent mayoral elections in which black voters lined up behind one candidate, this time the African-American electorate seems to be split. The Times/BayNews 9 poll showed Foster with a lead in the black community, but both candidates have received endorsements from high-profile figures in the community. The president of the St. Pete chapter of the NAACP, Ray Tampa, is backing Ford, while former mayoral candidate Deveron Gibbons supports Foster.
Last week Gibbons cobbled together a coalition of officials, many of them black, to denounce one of Ford's biggest gaffes in the campaign. That was her allusion to Princeton Professor Cornel West's HNIC (Head Negro in Charge) concept, which she evoked when being asked about Goliath Davis in a radio interview with Bubba the Love Sponge. Davis is the former police chief with whom Ford infamously tussled during her time on Council over her assertion that he might be tipping off drug dealers.
Pinellas County Commissioner Ken Welch, who is neutral in the race, says he doesn't think Ford will suffer any significant backlash from the HNIC comment. He also says that as a black businessman himself, he wasn't exactly enamored of Foster's comments regarding African-American entrepreneurial skills. (During the Oct. 12 BayNews 9 debate, Foster said, "They may be wonderful contractors and know the Florida building code inside and out, but they may be lousy business owners as far as the entrepreneurial skills.")
On a Saturday morning in Midtown recently, Ford and Foster took questions for an hour from a forum with a mostly black audience, hosted by Agenda 2010 at the Royal Theatre on South 22nd Street. A straw poll taken afterwards of the 62 people in attendance showed the audience to be evenly divided.
Midtown resident William Gravelly supports Ford, and said he thought she was gaining ground in the black community because "she's been able to overcome the so-called racist label that some people are trying to put on her, and people can see who she really is." Gravelly said he thought it was time for a changing of the guard at City Hall, and believes Ford epitomizes that change.
Gypsy Gallardo is the publisher of Powerbroker magazine and an organizer of Agenda 2010, a group formed to increase black voter participation in this year's mayoral and City Council elections. She sees a definite contrast between the two candidates, calling it a classic example of the establishment vs. change.
Gallardo also sees the split in the black community. She contrasts the endorsements that Foster has engendered from black leaders (reinforced in the Gibbons-led HNIC press conference) with the large number of yard signs supporting Ford spread out among the citizenry in Midtown.
Gallardo thinks that Rick Baker and Goliath Davis have done tremendous work in Midtown, creating what she refers to as a "bull run," but says the next administration needs to go beyond the bricks-and-mortar projects that have occurred in the past decade in the traditionally economic depressed section of town.
"They've done an outstanding job for building the skeleton. Now's it's time to get to the marrow, and look at the community development that has to happen next."
Of course, not everyone in Midtown is impressed by Baker and Davis' accomplishments in Midtown. Chimurenga Waller is with the International People's Democratic Uhuru Movement, who haven't been very vocal about this year's election. "Seventy-one percent of those who live in Midtown live at or below the poverty line!" he bellows in a phone interview. "That's partly a result of his [Baker's] term as mayor. He's done nothing to reverse that. All we are see are condos and the gentrification of the African community."
The Uhurus had confrontations with both Ford and Foster back in the day, and Waller has little positive to say about either candidate. He calls Foster "arrogant" for saying that he hoped to be considered the mayor of Midtown, but says he isn't taken in by what some call "Kathleen Ford 2.0," saying simply, "She's going to be Kathleen Ford."
Being Kathleen Ford also means that gender could play a positive role for her in the election. "You cannot say enough about that," says campaign advisor Mitch Kates, who thinks it played a huge part in separating Ford from the pack, helping her to win 25 percent of the vote in the primary (where she trailed only Foster and his 27 percent).
USF-St. Petersburg political scientist Judithanne Scourfield McLaughlin agrees, but only in part. She says that it did help Ford in the primary, but says it's also hurt her. "Some of the personal attacks against her could be seen as sexist," Scourfield McLaughlin says. "For example, she is criticized for aggressive questioning of city staff; that kind of tenacity is often seen as a positive trait in men."
And some observers see more partisanship at play than in previous St. Pete elections. The Florida Democratic Party paid for a mailer that supports Ford, while a local "Tea Party" group dubbed the Pinellas Patriots announced their support for Foster back in July.
DOWN TO THE WIRE
In the Oct. 18 Times/Bay News 9 poll that showed Ford in the lead, almost a quarter of those surveyed were undecided. Which makes Foster's press inaccessibility in the final stretch somewhat puzzling.
Despite repeated requests, Foster rejected attempts for a one-on-one interview with this newspaper. He also turned down a televised debate on WEDU, the PBS affiliate in town, and there have been other reports among area media of him "shutting it down" when it comes to other interview opportunities in recent weeks.
On November 3rd, all of the strategies, endorsements, controversial comments and get-out-the-vote efforts will converge -- as St. Petersburg's leadership changes, maybe dramatically.
